Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Discussion of the various leader boards that LonelyCache has or should have
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rocketsciguy
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Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by rocketsciguy »

This topic is following up the Facebook Group discussion regarding dreamcacher102's (shall we say) anomalous finds, and about the idea in general of excluding particular cachers from causing any impact on LCP cache scores, stats, and leaderboards. (Hat-tip to railroader921 for bringing this cacher to the community's attention.)

Corfman Clan has built into the site a mechanism for marking cachers as either Standard (default), Private, and Excluded. The ongoing assumption has been that changing status to anything besides Standard would be at the request of the cacher effected, and that disputed logs are a matter between the Cache Owner and the "Finder". Here we have an example where a cacher could be excluded from the LonelyCache database without his consent because of the concentrated "damage" done.

dreamcacher102 (PR76X5Y) has 101 finds in two days of caching. Day one, he (assuming a he) logged a cache in all 50 states plus the District of Columbia. Day two, he found 52 caches in the northwest corner of Utah (all in Box Elder County / Bonneville Region). Two finds have since been deleted, leaving him 101 finds, 55 of which ought to be within the current LCP service area (1 each in UT, AZ, CO, NM, NV for day one, plus 50 remaining in day 2), all of them traditionals. As of writing, 52 finds have been incorporated into LCP stats.

At 1,122 points, at an average of 21.6 Pts/hide, so far dreamcacher102 is ranked:
  • #57 LCP-wide single month growth
  • #931 LCP-wide BC leaderboard
  • #449 Utah BC / #379 Traditional BC
  • #26 Box Elder Best All Around Points (#24 Traditional)
  • #12 Box Elder BC (34.2% of total) / #10 Traditional BC (45.1% of total). It is startling to me to see this cacher ranked among many high-profile cachers, his "peers", on these two leaderboards.
  • #111 Bonneville Best All Around (#99 Traditional)
  • #54 Bonneville BC (#49 Traditional)
His non-Utah finds include a 39-Pt cache in CO, a 33-Pt cache in NM, a 23-Pt cache in NV, and a 7.2-Pt cache in AZ.

Since at one instant in time, a LonelyCache point score is a zero-sum game among the finders, the 1122 Pts allotted to him were taken from legitimate finders of those caches. There was also an unknown (but could be calculated) number of points taken from the hiders. The future value of those caches is also reduced because their point values will grow more slowly.

I would recommend that dreamcacher102 be reclassified as an Excluded cacher for this site. I recognize, however, that I am not impartial on this matter. My score is not directly affected because I have not found any of the caches he claims to have had, but this is my home county and my standing on the local leaderboards has been reduced.

This is a good opportunity for a philosophical discussion. Also, this could prove to be an interesting experiment to determine whether marking a cacher Excluded is correctly handled by the LCP database.
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skeeper
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by skeeper »

A disclaimer....He took points from me. I spent a lot of time and money going after the Box Elder caches dreamcacher102 logged. I know from experience in this particular area that it is impossible to get to all of these caches in the time he/she said it was done in. I also noticed only non premium member caches were hit. I would advise anyone who has remote caches, if you're not a premium member, become one and make your caches premium member caches. I think at one time dreamcacher102 had 109 finds. Slowly, some logs are being deletes but alas, some of the caches in question are very old and the owners are no longer active. I too think this person should be banned from LCP. :evil:
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Corfman Clan
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by Corfman Clan »

I've stated before that LonelyCache will not get in the business of deciding whether a find is valid or not. Disputed find logs is an issue that needs to be taken up with the cacher, the cache owner, or with Groundspeak directly. That's a policy I don't plan to change.

Has anyone here contacted Groundspeak and mentioned what dreamcacher102 did? I'm sure a request would not be ignored. It's my understanding that Groundspeak has previously taken action against cachers making false logs.

Interestingly, there really isn't any discussion of this on the Geocaching.com forums. At least I didn't see anything when I searched for dreamcacher102.
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Corfman Clan
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by Corfman Clan »

I will add that, as of a few minutes ago, dreamcacher102 has logged 38 more caches today. For the ones I looked at, the log was, "I really didn't find it this time!" I suggest some of you (more than one would probably be better) contact Groundspeak. As I've stated that LonelyCache won't get in the business of deciding whether a find is valid or not, I think it inappropriate for me to do the contacting.
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3rd times the charm
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by 3rd times the charm »

Corfman Clan wrote:I will add that, as of a few minutes ago, dreamcacher102 has logged 38 more caches today. For the ones I looked at, the log was, "I really didn't find it this time!" I suggest some of you (more than one would probably be better) contact Groundspeak. As I've stated that LonelyCache won't get in the business of deciding whether a find is valid or not, I think it inappropriate for me to do the contacting.
I have contacted Groundspeak about dreamcacher102 and I have also contacted the cache owners in Oregon and Washington that dreamcacher102 logged a find on their cache on 8/16/2012. I hope they ALL do the right thing and stop this type Geocacher from randomly logging finds on Geocaches.
A & J - Adrift
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by A & J - Adrift »

Corfman Clan wrote:As I've stated that LonelyCache won't get in the business of deciding whether a find is valid or not, I think it inappropriate for me to do the contacting.
Once a rouge cacher has been detected and his/her invalid caches have been properly deleted (such as happened here GC2CVQX), what's the proper mechanism to get this recognized in your database? With the DGP, there was a chance to re-synch a cache. Does this exist? Is it planned?
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Corfman Clan
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by Corfman Clan »

A & J - Adrift wrote:Once a rouge cacher has been detected and his/her invalid caches have been properly deleted (such as happened here GC2CVQX), what's the proper mechanism to get this recognized in your database? With the DGP, there was a chance to re-synch a cache. Does this exist? Is it planned?
That's a good question. We plan to have a mechanism where you can request a cache be re-synched, however it is not yet in place.

Currently LonelyCache updates a cache in one of two ways, a basic update and a full update. With a basic update, the last 30 logs for the cache are retrieved and any new find logs are added to the database. With a full update, all logs are retrieved for the cache and replace all the existing logs. If a basic update retrieves all logs for a cache, then it works like a full update. We mark the cache with the date and time of both the last basic update and last full update. A cache is queued for a basic update 7 days after the last basic update. A cache is queued for a full update 90 days after the last full update, however there's a good chance I'll increase this to at least 120 days, if not 180.

If Groundspeak takes action on dreamcacher102, then I should be able to do something on LonelyCache to speed up the process.
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desert dawg
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by desert dawg »

To those who do not know .. Dreamcacher102 has an AKA.. Dreamcaher100. http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid ... 9538cac290

Groundspeak locked that acct so he just opened another with a new name. His AKA dreamcacher100 still shows a stats page here on LCP? :roll:

He don't seem to like to pop the $30. premimum membership when he changes names so all the caches he logs a non premimum member caches. I have deleted some of his logs on my caches and converted them to premimum member caches only. I have liked to keep a few caches open to everyone, kids and newbys just starting out. I dunno now ?

ya. he has effected my BE county cachin stats very negitive to this point.
hope groundspeak takes action on his stupid activities soon...
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Corfman Clan
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by Corfman Clan »

desert dawg wrote:To those who do not know .. Dreamcacher102 has an AKA.. Dreamcaher100. http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid ... 9538cac290

Groundspeak locked that acct so he just opened another with a new name. His AKA dreamcacher100 still shows a stats page here on LCP? :roll:
Since Groundspeak has locked the dreamcacher100 account and archived all the associated logs, I have excluded that account from LonelyCache. All logs should be deleted from the LonelyCache database the next time stats are run.
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desert dawg
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by desert dawg »

good nuff.... :D and thank you!

102 has since logged another 38 caches of his last installment of his currant regin of terror..

anyone have a link to report him to groundspeak? please post it.. I'm ready... :evil:
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by Corfman Clan »

desert dawg wrote: anyone have a link to report him to groundspeak? please post it.. I'm ready... :evil:
At the bottom of every Geocaching.com page, there is a Contact Us link. Click it and then choose to send an email.
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desert dawg
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by desert dawg »

Thank you Russell .. :oops: dunno how I missed it... ;)
desert dawg
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by desert dawg »

Woot Woot::: Breaking News:
Dreamcacher 102 geocaching ACCT has been locked...
http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid ... 5e17b5f4c4

guess we now wait and see what name he re-registers under now? Hopefully he is bored playing havoc on us..
and stops his game..
desert dawg
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by desert dawg »

Now that Dreamcacher102 geocaching acct. has been locked for a couple weeks now,
Its well past time to delete his finds from LCP STATS? he has impacted 47 caches I have found to date...
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Corfman Clan
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by Corfman Clan »

desert dawg wrote:Now that Dreamcacher102 geocaching acct. has been locked for a couple weeks now,
Its well past time to delete his finds from LCP STATS? he has impacted 47 caches I have found to date...
As I've mentioned previously, LonelyCache will not be in the business of deciding whether a find is valid or not. As long as the hides appear on Geocaching.com, we will not be deleting them from LonelyCache.com. If they get deleted from Geocaching.com as did dreamcacher100's finds, then we will take steps to remove them from LonelyCache. I suggest pursuing this with Groundspeak.
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chris geertsen
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by chris geertsen »

:shock: wo is all i can say about this. so after reading this discussion i decided to look the account up and while doing so i found something unbeleivable! :shock: what i found was there is alot more registered names besides just dreamcacher100 and dreamcacher102 i found a whole long list with other accounts named basically the same! so it might just be there is alot more accounts than we first thought that are logging false finds. i have not yet went through all those other accounts yet so i don't know much about what's going on with them but it definitely could be that at least some of these accounts could be associated with the ones above! maybe even more false find logs? now here's the list. you could just go to geocaching.com and type dreamcacher in the find another player box. but this is just so you get an idea of how many more there are. even though the ones above are archived does not mean that he or she is still using these accounts as well to log false finds. the one account i did look at number 2 on the list was not a premium member but had 31 finds and on another one it looked as if he or she had logged some in another country. so the main idea is that there are probably alot more accounts and false finds that we previously did not know about! on one account i looked at it had about 550 finds. maybe a little investigation is needed to determine which accounts are logging false finds and also which accounts have stopped logging finds. i just hope this sheds some further light on this subject and maybe even more action can be taken based on this list! some accounts have numbers on them which relate perhaps very closely to the ones above! for instance one account is named dreamcacher101 that fits right between 100 and 102! anyway hope this list helps! :x :evil:
1. dreamcacher
2. dreamcacher v
3.dreamcacher;)
4. dreamcacher_kd
5. dreamcacher_org
6. dreamcacher09
7. dreamcacher101
8. dreamcacher111
9. dreamcacher113
10.dreamcacher13
11. dreamcacher17
12. dreamcacher2000
13. dreamcacher2008
14. dreamcacher29
15. dreamcacher311
16. dreamcacher38
17. dreamcacher5
18. dreamcacher707
19. dreamcacher828
20. dreamcacher8990
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Corfman Clan
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by Corfman Clan »

Let's bring this back in perspective. In the LonelyCache domain, only six geocachers have dreamcacher in their name and one has dream cacher. Several of those accounts have been around for many years and I see no reason to think their finds are fraudulent. What occurred with dreamcacher100 and dreamcacher102 was fairly obviously arm chair caching.

As I've mentioned, LonelyCache will not discrimate between real and fraudulent logs, so even if some of those finds are not real, we're stuck with them on LonelyCache.com until the cache owner or Groundspeak deletes the logs.
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Cheda
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Re: Excluding Armchair Cachers and Pets

Post by Cheda »

Even worse are those armchair cachers with lapdogs. :mrgreen:
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